Adam & God Watch

TheCentralScrutinizer · 18 Aug 07 :: 09:45

Hey, I like that idea. They were all blue collar except for Rich Lady God, as far as I can remember.

And another great and very logical point about Adam and Joan. I guess maybe I was hoping for a higher meaning. I really thought the might be going somewhere with it, and then came the whole Ryan thing. I saw him as trying to get to Joan by corrupting Adam if there'd been a season 3. So that the B-story arch might be Joan's ongoing battle for Adam's soul in a way. I wasn't sure how it would play out, but it seemed like they were setting something like that up.

TeeJay · 18 Aug 07 :: 10:18

You know what I always wonder? When God appears to Joan in one of His avatar forms, does that person just exist because he/she is God at that moment? Will that person vanish again, once God is done being that avatar? Or is that just a normal person whose body is "taken over" by God for a little while? I know that's rather technical, but, hey, I'm a biologist and an agnostic, and asking these questions is just in my nature.

And welcome to the boards from me as well! Glad you found us.

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 18 Aug 07 :: 13:48

Interesting question, Tina, I wondered about that too.

Editsound · 18 Aug 07 :: 16:52

I wondered the same thing. My guess is that God is not taking over someone's body for two reasons. First, whenever Joan sees one of the avatar forms she knows, it is always God, she never went up to one and had it turn out to be a person who didn't know her. The second reason is the whole free will thing. If God were to take over someone (even for a couple of minutes) he would be taking away that person's free will for that time. However, on the other side, I keep getting the image of these people disappearing, and that doesn't seem right either.

The idea that Adam was more aware of the avatar forms because of something special about him (that they were setting up for season 3) is really interesting, and definately works. I'm going to have to think about that some more.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 18 Aug 07 :: 20:26

I think I'm with you on this one, Rick. For the reason you stated. Also, that's probably why the God avatars are people who kind of blend into the scenery like you said, so you wouldn't even notice whether they're around or not.

Something that also always struck me as weird was the convenience store clerk avatar in No Bad Guy. When He called Joan on the phone, He was still in the form of that avatar, still working in that store. But He didn't have to be. Any of the avatars could've called Joan on the phone. Why that avatar, specifically? How long did God remain in the form of that avatar when He wasn't anywhere near Joan and she couldn't see Him anyway?

Editsound · 19 Aug 07 :: 04:56

I watched a couple of episodes today "Friday night", and "No Future". And you are definately onto something. Adam is very aware of the various God forms. They were definately up to something with that.

Interestingly Judith was actually talking to God, but then she was about to die so I assume that is why she saw him. I noticed when Joan and God go outside the room to talk, a nurse walks right by them into the room, and doesn't seem to notice the Doctor (God). Very cool stuff. I will be tuned into this from now on.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 19 Aug 07 :: 05:00

Yeah, that's one of the fascinating things about repeat viewings. You really pick up on this stuff. You should check out our Adam & Joan-centeric recaplets of the show. As well as the ones at www.televisionwithoutpity.com. Those are really long, but very funny and a great companion for enjoying the minutia of the show. Want direct links?

Editsound · 19 Aug 07 :: 05:02

Cool. thanks

TheCentralScrutinizer · 19 Aug 07 :: 05:08

Our recaps (1x02 - 2x04)...

http://www.chris-marquette.com/content/ … s/1x00.htm

TWoP...

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/po … c1d240____

Editsound · 19 Aug 07 :: 05:34

Thank you. Those are spectacular!

TheCentralScrutinizer · 19 Aug 07 :: 05:39

Yeah, that'll keep you busy for a while. Hee.

colorthestars · 22 Aug 07 :: 08:51

I'd like to also point out that Luke noticed God on at least one other occasion, in 'Recreation' when God takes the form of the cashier and asks if she invited Adam to the party. You'd think that the people in Joan's live would take notice of God, since she talks to Him/Her so much and often leaves her friends to do so.

Also, I always thought it was weird that God always gave her hints about Adam, like he indeed was trying to get Adam to fufill a bigger purpose. Maybe I'm just reading too much into things.

Again, I find myself wishing that I had more to go on than just speculation and fanfiction, but I guess they are alot better than nothing.

Last edited by colorthestars (22 Aug 07 :: 08:54)

domesticelefant · 22 Aug 07 :: 18:16

I kind of have the same problem. I want to say so much more about the show but sometimes I just can't because my English is not good enough. So I keep most of my posts short.

Moonlight · 31 Dec 11 :: 06:43

I'm finding it kind of interesting after reading through all of these posts for the first time from so long ago how so many of you were on the same page with my thinking. Of course I only got introduced to JoA a couple of years ago so its really fresh in my mind, but I always had the same thoughts about Adam. I wanted to think that it was God's design for Adam to be connected to Joan for some bigger purpose than just dating. I always noticed how it seemed that so often something she was going through had some kind of effect on him either small or in some cases very large. And it would make sense to me that if an enemy of Joan's would want to hurt her or damage her effectiveness as a messenger of God, they would go after the one closest to her heart...Adam.

There were so many moments I noticed:

From the second episode....she meets Adam and not only does that connection help Kevin, but it also helps Adam because Joan gets to visit his shed and find out that he's not the person he's led everyone to believe he is.

That show where God tells her that she's going to be in a position to help someone...yeah, Rocky's mom. But I think God also wanted her to notice Adam's obvious pain. When he told her that he hates November...that was his cry for help, so to speak. Finally, at the end of the episode she figured that out and was able to give him the help he needed.

In Recreation, when God tells her to invite Adam and make sure he knows he's invited. Basically, God was telling her not to confuse him...or to play with his heart.

In The Gift, when God tells her that Adam needs something from her that was God telling her to get closer to him so she could help him with his difficult situation. Sometimes a gift isn't about a thing. Sometimes it's about giving something from your heart.

So many more examples I could come up with. The point is...I know that Adam wasn't supposed to be a full cast member from the get go, but once they started building his storyline and his character it seemed to me that they realized how important Adam needed to be for Joan so they continued to build on that. Such a shame that once they developed this sweet character and had found this amazing young actor to breathe life into Adam in such a unique and wonderful way, they didn't respect it for what it was. They ruined it. Such a shame.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 31 Dec 11 :: 20:03

Great observations. Really thoughtful. And I couldn't agree more.

Marvalus · 01 Jan 12 :: 00:58

Agreed. Very well put.

BiggestChrisMarquetteFan · 01 Jan 12 :: 03:30

Chris deserved way more screen time! And Joan/Adam deserved to be a forever happy couple/high school sweethearts with no lying, cheating, etc.

Moonlight · 01 Jan 12 :: 15:00

Won't argue with you there. Any story needs a bit of conflict to be successful though. It's just that the kind of conflict they created with Adam was so inconsistent with who they had built as a character that it just felt phony. I didn't have a problem with there being some kind of conflict to create a bit of tension, but to have him cheat on her was just the wrong way to do it given all the effort they took to build the sweet relationship between them.

The only silver lining for me was that afterward, God made a real effort for Joan to very quickly deal with her anger in Spring Cleaning, and then he started working on her heart to forgive him in the one where he goes missing. I'm always reminded of the moment right before he came to see her at the bookstore when God talks to her about persion rugs. How they always leave one flaw to show that only God his perfect. It was like he was telling her to understand that Adam is human and not perfect and therefore he made a mistake. That doesn't mean she shouldn't forgive him. That doesn't mean he's not worthy of her forgiveness. Interesting that he would expect that of her over something that most people, especially most women, would consider an unforgivable mistake. But to me thats just further proof that Adam was special to Joan and her relationship to him was important....and maybe his mistake was more to do with an effort on the part of the enemy of God, aka Satan, to destroy Joan's effectiveness by destroying her heart than it was about Adam being a jerk. To put him in a tempting situation over something he was obviously struggling with anyway, sex, is something that Satan would do to someone. He knows our weaknesses and he tries his best to hit us in our weakest place. Not sure if that made sense to anyone, but this is just my effort to make sense of something that really made no sense.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 01 Jan 12 :: 20:49

I understand what you're saying. I only wish I believed that the writers had thought it through as thoroughly as you have.

Moonlight · 01 Jan 12 :: 21:40

Obviously they didn't or Adam would never have cheated on Joan...they were just looking for a ratings bump...I get that.

Moonlight · 01 Jan 12 :: 21:58

These are all the thought processes that brought me to my continuation of the story so I obviously have thought through it in depth to come up with some real answers as to why some of the things happened the way they did. Not sure how far you've read, but in order to arrive at the end story a lot of these questions had to be thought through and answered in a detailed sort of way. Are you still interested? Haven't heard from Carol. I know the holidays are busy....just curious. Would love a litte feedback when you get the time even if you think the writing stinks. I take criticism well....i promise.

Did Barbara Hall herself not have some say in the progression of the story? Have a hard time believing that she was on board with how the second season ended up, I mean with Adam cheating on Joan and all. Just curious.

BiggestChrisMarquetteFan · 03 Jan 12 :: 02:23

Yes but Adam cheating was a choice not a mistake. And not something to blame on the devil.

Moonlight · 03 Jan 12 :: 05:25

Yes...it was his choice...no argument there. But where do temptations like that originate from. He then has a choice to make after he is tempted. I'm just saying from a spritual standpoint because it is, after all, a show about God and spiritual matters, if the Devil wanted to destroy Joan's effectiveness for God, tempting Adam in that way was something he would historically do to hurt them both.

The original Adam from the Bible is my case in point: Eve, tempted by Satan through a snake made the wrong choice and then led the first Adam astray. Did she have to take the Apple? Did he have to take the apple? No, they both chose wrongly. The temptation though was brought on by Satan. They both had a choice whether or not to give in to the snake and they both made their own choice to take the apple. That's all I'm saying. No wishes for an argument and no one has to agree with me. This is just the way I see it.

And I bet if you asked Adam Rove himself, he would consider what he did with Bonnie to be a mistake because of all that he lost because of it. He even says the words, "if I could take it back" when she's confronting him after the trial. If he wants to take it back, that means he is remorseful and considers it a mistake. He loved Joan. He was dating Joan. To do what he did was the worst kind of mistake or betrayal that you can do when you are in a relationship with someone that you say you love.

Last edited by Moonlight (03 Jan 12 :: 05:56)

justme · 03 Jan 12 :: 21:54

I read through 14 yesterday, Moonlight. I made a few notes, not many. I'll get something to you by next Saturday. Not just the holidays, but Nov-Jan is my busiest time at my new job. Our annual report is due at the end of the month.

Moonlight · 03 Jan 12 :: 22:48

Great! Looking forward to hearing from you! If you need to wait till you're less busy to proceed, thats okay....I really appreciate you taking the time for it.

Last edited by Moonlight (03 Jan 12 :: 23:39)

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