Adam & God Watch

TheCentralScrutinizer · 14 Aug 06 :: 04:20

Maybe this is old news to some people but I recently realized, after watching almost the entire series again that Adam is pretty much the only person in Joan's life that God ever directly interacts with. And he's the only one who ever notices God when Joan goes off with Him/Her.

I think they had plans for Adam to eventually be fully aware and accepting of Joan's relationship with God.

So lets' cite some examples so you guys won't think I'm crazy:

* I'm not sure it's the first time, but Mrs. LandingGod, pats his shoulder as She exits the book store when Joan almost tells him in 1X04, The Boat. Adam watches Her leave the store.

* In Recreation, Adam gets upset when he sees Joan dancing with CuteGuyGod.

* In Common Thread, Adam watches ShellyColeGod walk past him as he's sitting in the tree.

* In Do The Math, Adam trips over one of DogWalkerGod's dogs.

I can't remember which ep it is but Adam literally bumps into one of the God Avatars too.

This is not true of any other character. Helen, of course, met CuteGuyGod in a dream. But there was always something very important about Adam. I would like to think that his fall from grace and eventual redemption would've been played for some huge drama in S3.

Name any other examples of this you can think of...

Deb

domesticelefant · 15 Aug 06 :: 14:43

Didn't two girls notice CuteBoyGod in the Pilot Episode?
But otherwise I think you're right, no one exept Adam ever notices Joan talking to God.

I have to ask it again ... WHY in Gods name can't there be a third season???? :mad::mad:

TheCentralScrutinizer · 20 Aug 06 :: 04:26

I'm not sure we can count those girls noticing CuteGuyGod in the pilot in quite the same way we can count the very obviously deliberate way BH & Co had Adam interact with Him/Her.

Luke of course noticed BalloonAnimalGod. But that's the only time I can remember Luke interacting.

Let's look at the scene at the beginning of Friday where DogWalkerGod talks to Joan and Judith just lays down on the grass (perhaps mimicking death), paying no attention to the fact that Joan has wandered off. Now that's what I call NOT noticing. And that's what happens most of the time when she leaves to speak to God. It's like everyone around her just zones out till she's finished.

Not Adam. Now, he doesn't always notice the God avatars. But he frequently does. I will cite more examples of this as I run across them.

Deb

domesticelefant · 20 Aug 06 :: 11:32

Sisterdebmac wrote:

Let's look at the scene at the beginning of Friday where DogWalkerGod talks to Joan and Judith just lays down on the grass (perhaps mimicking death), paying no attention to the fact that Joan has wandered off. Now that's what I call NOT noticing. And that's what happens most of the time when she leaves to speak to God. It's like everyone around her just zones out till she's finished.

This seems indeed to be interesting.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 08 Sep 06 :: 06:39

Out Of Sight

Adam sees Joan talking to GothGod and approaches her after He walks away. "Who were you talking to?" he asks, pointing at God as He disappears down the hall.

"God" Joan answers, "He's big into Marilyn Manson." Of course, she plays it off as a joke.

Adam laughs with her, mainly to difuse the tension between them, I think. It's a lovely moment. A little frustrating maybe, but they're both really sweet and cute here for a moment.

Deb

PS: TeeJay, this recap came in at 11 hand-written pages. Probably 4-5 typed. Will send it ASAP.

domesticelefant · 08 Sep 06 :: 14:58

I remember that scene. Maybe Adam doubts that Joan was "just joking". At least I thought so after watching it for the first time.

shrams · 17 Oct 06 :: 06:21

I can't think of any other specific scenes where Adam notices God, but I recall seeing a lot of them when I was watching the show more regularly.

Oh, duh, my favorite! Johnny Godway not only gives Adam an assignment, he also puts his arm around him. Aside from the usual nervous look of, "Dude, what are you doing? I don't like to be touched!" Adam didn't flinch, run away, or (figuratively) knock God out of his wheelchair to get away from him. Think about it; Adam was touched by the hand of God, on more than one occasion. There had to be some significance to that.

I was hoping Adam's "fall from grace" would lead to eventual redemption, but we never got the chance to see if that would happen. I really wanted to see Adam develop his own relationship with God, outside of sort of sharing in Joan's experiences, but I guess there was a reason it was "Joan of Arcadia" instead of "Adam of Arcadia."

TheCentralScrutinizer · 17 Oct 06 :: 17:43

Adam Of Arcadia, wow, OK, why do I feel a fic coming on?

Deb

domesticelefant · 17 Oct 06 :: 18:17

I wouldn't mind a spin-off. Unless there is no reunion with Joan. <sigh> They were my alltime favorite couple on TV. And I think this is not going to change.

shrams · 17 Oct 06 :: 19:20

I'd love a spin-off for Adam!

I hate to say it, but I've sometimes wondered how the show would have gone if they hadn't made Joan and Adam a couple, but had kept them as friends instead. The problem, dramatically, with creating a happy couple is that you so often have to find excuses to make them conflicted, and there were some natural conflicts already in place that were ignored in favor of "typical" teenage dating issues. For instance, the whole God issue, and the fact that Joan wouldn't talk about it. She was hiding so many things, lying so often, it might have been interesting to see how Adam, as purely a friend with a crush, might have seen things, if he weren't distracted by being Joan's boyfriend. He suddenly went from being this really intriguing guy who was interesting in his own right, to being "the boyfriend" who so often reacted to Joan instead of having separate issues of his own. Everything became about them as a couple, or Joan trying to keep things from him. I know it was her show, but the way the characters were written, I wanted to know more about Adam and less about Joan.

I really wanted to see what Adam's religious views were, what beliefs he'd been raised with, and what conclusions he'd come to or how things had changed after his mother's death. And I really, really wanted to see more about how he felt about the research he did while Joan was at Crazy Camp. I would have loved to have seen them discussing the whole issue, and I wanted Joan to have Adam as a confidante, rather than one more person to lie to. She shouldn't have had to try so hard to avoid talking to him about the most important things happening in her life. I thought this was a major flaw of the show, at least, the show that I wanted to see.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 17 Oct 06 :: 20:25

Beautifully put shrams! You are so right about all of that. I was always annoyed by the fact that Joan wasn't allowed to have anyone to talk to about the God stuff. Why couldn't she have a Scooby Gang? Wouldn't that have been fun? The Subdefectives on their missions from God? But if not, at least Adam would've been the perfect confidante. He totally came around to believing her and she just shut him down. Although he never really seemed to let it go or allow her to make him believe that it wasn't true. I love that conversation he tries to have with her about death in Book Of Questions. Too bad she shut him down once again.

I think the writers were scared of their own premise in a lot of ways. Because you're right there was so much inherent conflict in Joan's relationships with everyone that they could've explored. They didn't need to reduce it to just typical teen stuff. You can tell they were shying away from things a lot in the second season. Especially regarding Joan and Adam's physical relationship.

I have huge issues with the dialog in the camper scene in Independence Day. It was so cliched! I often say that I remember the exact same conversation between Chuck and Julie on One Day At A Time in 1976! That's utterly ridiculous. I hated that they had this sweet, empathetic guy spout all the horny teenager cliches in the book. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been a horny teenager and he shouldn't have tried to have sex with Joan. In reality, he would be trying all the time because that's what teenage boys do. It just could've been so much better if he'd sounded like Adam and not any guy on any TV show in any decade. And I hated that she seemed so naive in that scene. Like it was totally unexpected that he might try to get jiggy when they were finally all alone for a whole night. I mean, what planet is she from?

Look back at The Gift. The hotel room scene in that show was absolutely lovely! So NOT cliched. Why couldn't they do something more like that?

And here's an interesting point to ponder while we're on the subject of horny teenagers. Rememer how scared and upset Adam was that Joan told Helen what he tried to pull in the camper? I mean the kid looked at her as a surrogate mom and never wanted to do anything that would disappoint her. Look at the conversation he has with Helen about what happened. You're going to tell me that it's consistent and in-character that this same boy, only two weeks later does the worst thing he could do to the two women he loves most by betraying their trust, just for a quick lay? I don't buy it. I never did and I never will. It's very heartening to now know that the actors didn't buy it either.

So I think that any failures of the show in the second season are totally attributable to fear on someone's part. Either BH & Co got suddenly scared of their own show and forgot how to write it. Or CBS got scared of the show and put tremendous pressure on BH to dumb it down for the junior high school set, as Chris said. Whatever happened, it is a damn crying shame.

Deb

TeeJay · 17 Oct 06 :: 20:29

In fact, Deb and I watched Independence Day together when I was over at her place in Atlanta. And we talked about how badly we wanted to rewrite the whole camper scene. "It's sort of the next step, isn't it?" Aaaaargh!!! Adam! And that out of YOUR mouth? Dude, you're better than that! What would be a total challenge: Rewrite the scene and have both of them say the right things but still not have them ending up sleeping together.

Any takers?

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 17 Oct 06 :: 20:40

Me of course. Man, I could say so much more to this but I can't because my English sucks again.
Sorry for ranting, I'll shut up now.

TeeJay · 17 Oct 06 :: 20:51

You wanna write it? Okay, go ahead, Anne! I'd really like to read your take on it.

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 17 Oct 06 :: 21:02

I could try something after I finished my Lost Secrets Story. This is more important to me at the moment, sorry.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 17 Oct 06 :: 21:05

I'm gonna write that scene one day, TeeJay. But of course I'd love any contributions you want to make to it. I think we're kind of on the same wavelength. I also want to start the scene way earlier because I want to know how they got in that position in the first place. How do you go from not expecting your boyfriend to try to get with you, to actually fighting him off?

Deb

shrams · 18 Oct 06 :: 03:47

I might try to write that scene. Did they not talk about it at all before they left? Did they not talk about anything important? Must not have. It didn't make the slightest bit of sense to me. Horny teenager or not, Adam would have wanted to talk about it ahead of time, to make sure it was okay with Joan, and she felt the same way, etc. He wouldn't have just assumed it was okay with her, when they had obviously not been going in that direction.

Scared writers, network...makes sense to me. There are plenty of other shows aimed at teens; why take the one with the really different premise and try to make it just like the others?

TheCentralScrutinizer · 18 Dec 06 :: 06:03

In Queen Of The Zombies, Adam literally rubs elbows with Gay School Admin God. I'm sure that's intentional. Never noticed it till now. Quite funny!

Of course, this ep is chock full of Adam interacting with God in the form of Johnny Broadway/Godway.

Praising Adam's set model, Johnny puts his arm around Adam, and like always Adam looks at the uninvited contact like it bugs him. Might've been more interesting if he hadn't looked at the hand, like he was not fazed because it was God's hand. But Johnny is a flake, so I can see why Adam would bristle.

Deb

R2Roswell · 20 Dec 06 :: 04:59

This is just one p.o.v. (seriously; not the episode.) Anyways, here are my two thoughts:

1.)
Do you think that the reason Adam has more interaction with the different appearances of God is because of what he said in season 1 about talking to angels? I mean I know that he meant it figuratively and not literally; his way of talking to angels was through his art, but if you really think about it could it really be a plausible explaination? I mean Adam does the art for his mom, so on some level in there he must believe that she is somewhere "Up There" watching over him: his mother, the angels he talks to, God.

2.)
And then the obvious fact that Adam started believing Joan about really seeing God and how it wasn't just in her head- that could've triggered something as well. Adam believed so with that little spark he was able to start seeing God on a different level than he had in season 1 because he started to understand a little more

[Those were just my observations.]

TheCentralScrutinizer · 20 Dec 06 :: 05:10

Here's my take...

Since Adam also interacts with God in S1, I'm inclined to think that God always had plans for him. I mean, he's such a pure, sweet soul. He's seemingly incorruptible. As our friend, Shrams here on the boards likes to say, Adam's a better person than Joan. But then he falls. He is corrupted. But even afterward, he still sees God. In Common Thread, when Shelly-Cole-God walks by, he watches her do it. No other character ever did that. There is something special about Adam.

I think that's why Ryan went after him in Common Thread too. I think that the struggle in S3 would've been Ryan trying to corrupt Adam further in order to hurt Joan. And Joan fighiting to bring Adam back to the light. At least that seems to be what they were setting up.

But I also love your idea about the connection being with his mom, who was pretty much his angel.

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 26 Dec 06 :: 09:06

This isn't about Adam & God, it's just about God:

In the commentary for Common Thread, Stephen Nathan and Jim Hayman try to call "OldLadyGod" by her TWoP name, "Mrs. LandingGod", which is what she will always be to me. They don't quite get it right but it's still a very cool shout-out to TWoP recapper, Deborah. I love it!

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 11 Jan 07 :: 06:10

These also qualify as funny screencaps:

Adam rubs elbows with God...

Deb

domesticelefant · 11 Jan 07 :: 15:23

The first one is definitely the funniest! LOL We should add that to the contest.

allatraka · 26 Feb 07 :: 18:38

Hmmm... lots of interesting stuff going on here.
First off, one thing I always noticed about Adam and God was that after Judith's death, Adam was kind of the only one who ever aproached Joan about her maybe being able to deal with it by talking to God or something. I don't remeber what episode or exactly how the scene goes, but I remeber thinking how cool it was of Adam to take her seriously when all her other friends, especially Grace (and I LOVE Grace) always made these sideline little quips about her being crazy. I find myself wondering if Adam ever spends any time trying to, I don't know, connect all the things Joan is always going off doing with her seeing God. What I hate the most about the show being cancelled is that I feel like Joan would have eventually told Adam again that she sees God, and I so want to see that scene and how that would play out, but I can't. (Insert me shaking fist at CBS.)

I don't know if Adam is a better person to Joan. In the show, everyone seems pretty fallible to me and they all just have to go through these "lesson learned" type phases. Luke and his fear of doing something he won't succeed at, Grace and her relationships with her mother and religion, Mrs. Girardi and her dark past, etc. Also, Joan is more involved with the world than Adam is, so she has more chances to screw up. I've always thought that she was the person who kind of brought him out of his shell and reintroduced him to life, to living, you know? I feel like after his mother's suicide and before Joan he hid in his artwork, and Joan got him to share it, to live with it as opposed to through it. And I know that Joan seems superficial sometimes, but what really got me to like to the show (besides the whole Adam and Joan relationship) is that she really cares about the people around her. She connects, you know? Like the scene in the second episode, I think, where she's sitting with her older brother in front of the playground, and then she asks God to just let him be able to walk, it breaks my heart all the time.

Last edited by allatraka (26 Feb 07 :: 18:41)

Editsound · 18 Aug 07 :: 09:05

So many things to talk about in this thread. The interesting thing thing about the forms God took in the show to me, was how many of them were the people we commonly overlook in life. A cleaning woman, cafeteria worker, repair person...even children and old people. I always wondered if they were saying something in that. I attributed Adam's awareness of the various God forms, to the fact that he was hyper aware of Joan. When you are in love with someone, you notice everything about them (including who they are talking to).

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