SPOILERS!!! DISCUSS ALPHA DOG HERE!

TheCentralScrutinizer · 20 Jan 07 :: 10:03

WARNIING!!

VIRTUALLY EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS!

Keep Out if you don't want to be exposed to everything that happens in the movie.

This thread is for all of you who've seen Alpha Dog. Consider this a free-form discussion of the movie. You can say whatever you want to say about it here. Good, or not so much.

Only one rule, don't post details outside this thread!

If you post elsewhere about AD and your post contains spoilers, it is subject to being moved into this thread.

Have fun!

Here's my very subjective review of the film...

THE TRUTH ABOUT ALPHA DOG
Rated R
Universal Pictures
W/D: Nick Cassavetes

Screening occurred on 11/14/06 at University Of Georgia's Tate Theatre with Nick Cassavetes in attendance.

The first images you see in this film are home movies of the characters as normal, little children. But you already know going in that what happens to them is not normal behavior. It's an interesting choice, made more interesting by the fact that some of the actors provided the director with their own actual home movies to use in the film. It's pretty hard not to recognize little Anton Yelchin as soon as you see his big, innocent eyes onscreen. The voice-over at this point tells you that most of these boys grew up together, played little league together. Their lives seem as average as anyone else's.

But cut to present day and you see that these young lives have gone off the rails. We enter a world where gangs of teenage boys live in big houses, drive expensive cars and have free reign to do as they please. The gang we meet --- led by Johnny Truelove (Emile Hirsch) --- sells pot to finance their lavish lifestyle. There's no parenting, no adult supervision. Unless you count Johnny's father (Bruce Willis), their main weed supplier. Or Frankie's father, a weed-cultivating over-grown party boy.

Things get ugly for Johnny when he tries to call in a marker. Jake Mazursky (Ben Foster) owes Johnny $1200 for a dope deal that went bad and he can't come up with it soon enough to suit Johnny. A fight ensues, threats are made and it becomes a battle of wills between these two headstrong, drug-addled characters.

Into this world, stumbles Jake's little brother, Zach (Yelchin). At 15, he's no stranger to the bong and he idolizes his dangerously troubled older brother. Even without what happens, it was probably only a matter of time before Jake and Zach's worlds would collide.

The feud between Johnny and Jake escalates when Jake breaks into Johnny's house, steals his TV and takes a dump on his living room carpet. Yes, you read that right. It wigs Johnny out to the point where he immediately packs up his stuff and moves out.

That afternoon, Zach slips out his window and takes off on his own, after a fight with his parents. And who should cruise by but Johnny and a couple of his boys, including Frankie (Justin Timberlake). They recognize Zach as Jake's brother and without giving it a moment's thought, they grab Zach up and throw him in their van. But they really have no idea what they're doing.

Having no home to go to anymore, Johnny parades Zach around from one lowlife crash pad to another, barely bothering to conceal the fact that the kid is a hostage. As Frankie puts it, when he tells his hanger-on buddy, Keith (Chris Marquette) what's going on, Johnny's holding the kid as a marker until Jake pays his debt.

While Johnny tries to find Jake and arrange a trade --- the kid for the cash --- Frankie and Keith introduce him to their favorite pastimes, getting stoned and partying with chicks. Zach takes to it all like a starving man at a feast.

Meanwhile, Zach's parents, and finally Jake, are desperately trying to find out where the kid went. They get the police involved, tack up missing posters. They even stop fighting with each other for five seconds in their worry about Zach.

And Johnny's beginning to get panicky about the situation, enough that he decides to consult his lawyer. Not too bright of the lawyer to tell his client that kidnapping means life imprisonment. From that moment on, the wheels are turning in Johnny's twisted mind. The kid has to be taken care of.

Despite the fact that Zach is having a blast partying with the guys and falling into a liaison with not one, but two girls (at the same time), Johnny thinks he's a liability. He asks Frankie, hypothetically of course, what he would do if Johnny offered him $2500 to kill the kid. Frankie is appalled. He has taken a liking to Zach and he's sure the kid would never rat them out.

Johnny pretends the whole thing is a joke, and Frankie accepts that. But as Johnny hits up his slavishly devoted lap-dog, Elvis (Shawn Hatosy) to do the deed, Frankie begins to express worry for Zach's safety and actually tries to let him go. Zach's having too much fun. He won't leave Frankie.

Before long, Elvis takes up the mantle for Johnny and begins organizing Zach's murder. He tricks Keith into helping and then dupes Frankie too, saying they're just going to drive the kid home.

It all ends up in a conflagration that finds Zach tearfully begging Frankie not to let Elvis hurt him, and Frankie tearfully trying to calm him down with assurances that it's all a game. Keith takes off, wanting no part in what's about to happen. Elvis coldly executes Johnny's wishes in a shocking moment that made the row of girls behind me in the theatre scream like they were watching a slasher film.

Zach's body is found the very next day, in a shallow grave right beside a jogging trail. Johnny goes on the lam with his girlfriend, Angela (Olivia Wilde) and they manage to elude the police for a while. But after a fight in a cheap motel room, Angela is busted while Johnny watches from across the street. As the others are arrested, Johnny flees the country. He will not be caught for five years.

It's well-known that Alpha Dog is based on the case of the infamous Jesse James Hollywood, the youngest person ever to make the FBI's most-wanted list. It is also well-known that since the capture of JJH, the courts have been trying to block the release of the film for fear that it might hurt Jesse's chances for a fair trial. These issues have stalled the movie for nearly two years but it is now getting a reasonably wide release from Universal Pictures --- 1,000 screens on 1/12/07.

There have been countless rumors about the film and its content. Most of outrageous and completely unfounded. Let's dispel a few of them here:

1) RUMOR: There is extensive full-frontal nudity by all the male stars of the film.

FACT: A few of the girls bare their breasts and Emile Hirsch and Anton Yelchin bare their butts. That is absolutely the extent of it.

2) RUMOR: There is endless, wall-to-wall drug use in the film.

FACT: There is a lot of pot-smoking and drinking, but you'll see more of that in an episode of Weeds than you do in this movie.

3) RUMOR: The film makes light of the murder of an innocent child by showing him partying with his captors.

FACT: The film never makes light of anything. It simply shows what happened and allows viewers to make up their own minds. And Stockholm Syndrome is a very real thing. So is the fact that the young man on which the kid is based was no stranger to drugs and alcohol before he ever met these guys.

4) RUMOR: There is constant, wall-to-wall hardcore sex in the film.

FACT: There are three brief sex scenes in the approximately two-hour length of the film. And while one of them is a bit disturbing, the participants are not even the "bad characters".

5) RUMOR: The violence and language are gratuitous and over-the-top.

FACT: Please. The language is no worse than your average R-rated crime drama and the violence is only gruesome at the climax, which is as it should be in order to show the horror of what really happened. If you've ever seen any Tarrantino film, this will seem like a Hallmark movie to you.

6) RUMOR: Justin Timberlake ruins the movie by being a non-pro actor.

FACT: I'm no fan. But he's actually very effective in the role of nice-guy, Frankie. You get the feeling that if he wasn't mixed up with these boys, he'd be an all right kid.

As for my personal impressions of the film, I think it's very well-made and the ensemble cast is very strong. It's a depressing film in the end as all roads lead to the inevitable. But it is also an energetic and fascinating look into a world most of us will never experience, thank God. I do plan to see it again.

I confess to being distracted by the presence of my favorite young actor, Chris Marquette. When he was onscreen no one else existed for me. So to be really fair in my assessment, I will have to see it again and try to focus more on everything else.

There's a great deal going on, too many characters to really keep track of, and the pace is very fast. If you miss something, too bad. You're not likely to have a chance to revisit it for an explanation later. Like a lot of films that take you inside a strange landscape, you're expected to know enough going in to be able to keep up. Chances are, there will be dialog that sails over your head, or events that happen too quickly to fully grasp. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. There's something to be said for movies that are so chock full of people and events that they require repeat viewing. Those are usually my favorite films, in fact. There's no doubt that I will one day own the DVD of Alpha Dog.

Deb

Steph8705 · 20 Jan 07 :: 22:12

Woo hoo, first post here on the Chris Marquette board! I feel free already...hahaha.

I don't even know where to begin on spoiling this movie, everything about it was amazing..

I know there was that thread over on IMDb already started about this, but I just can't keep from talking about it, the murder scene.

When Chris (Keith) walked up to Zack and hugged him while crying, that's when I pretty much lost it..after that it was the way Frankie was lying through his teeth to Zack that he wouldn't hurt him and everything would be ok..and worst of all, Zack trusted him..

Steph

Last edited by Steph8705 (20 Jan 07 :: 22:14)

TheCentralScrutinizer · 21 Jan 07 :: 01:36

Hey Steph, just got back from viewing #3. We had an audience of about 30 people and everyone seemed pretty much riveted. Even the elderly couple that walked in before me and sat in front of me. I had a feeling they were going to leave. They looked to be in their 70's and I wondered if they had any idea what they were in for. They stuck it out though and the woman started crying when Zack started crying. One of the two girls in front of me, a few seats away from the elderly couple, was just sobbing during Frankie's talk with Zack on the hill. A very successful screening I wold say.

And now, I get home and Lords Of Dogtown is on Encore. Woohoo!

Gotta take care of a couple of things then I'll start inviting people over here.

Welcome to our little corner of the web!

Deb

Kait308 · 21 Jan 07 :: 03:10

Hey guys!! Thanks for the invite, it'll be nice to actually discuss the movie without having to worry about the loser trolls..

BTW: My username on IMDB was sweetchickie356, but I decided to change it because it's easier and it's my actual name lol

My third viewing was last night, and although the movie was just as good, the people in the theater really pissed me off.. Alpha Dog is only playing in one theater around, and it's in a very urban area, so I had to deal with a lot of immature little teenagers LAUGHING during the most crucial and emotional scenes, kicking my chair.. It was tough to pay attention, but I did none the less, and had different feelings this time during that scene.. When Keith grabbed Zach and cried, I still got emotional, but when Zach got to the top of the hill and saw his OWN grave, I felt sick to my stomach.. I can't imagine seeing your own grave and that feeling and the thoughts that run through your head.. Made me sick to my stomach at that thought

Last edited by Kait308 (21 Jan 07 :: 03:16)

TheCentralScrutinizer · 21 Jan 07 :: 03:38

Hey y'all,

Nice to see you here! Kait, I know exactly what you mean. The rudest audience for me so far was actually the UGA one. The row of girls behind me giggled at everything Justin did and talked all through the movie. Luckily, it was loud enough to keep it from being too distracting. Which was not the case today. I almost left to go ask them to turn it up because it wasn't loud enough. But I didn't want to miss anything and I didn't want to have them make it so loud it would bother the older folks.

The audience today was great. Very into it and very respectful. No kids, for one thing. It's playing all over Atlanta so I could've ventured out to see it with a different crowd than last week, but I just went back to the one closest to me.

I also went to Best Buy today to get the soundtrack and they didn't freakin' have it! I was mad for a second and then I remembered that I got an iTunes gift card for Christmas and it's available there. So I guess I'll just load it up on my MP3 player instead.

And Illinois, TeeJay is trying to get the bracelet from eBay for me. That's the one thing I'd really like to have. Wish the auction was over sooner so I could have it before next weekend. I think it might give Chris a giggle if I had it on when I see him at the FX Show.

Deb

GimmeKitty · 21 Jan 07 :: 07:00

Well, to all TALKERS-in-Movie, I have nil prob-lem-o just telling them allll off in noooo uncertain terms!

People with no movie manners are my Pet Peeves, right there.

First of all, may I just state that I don't know how often I will able to come here, because my time is stretched so THINLY, in Cyberspace as it is, not owning my own computer, but, I will try to visit about once or twice a week ...

Also, Tee-Jay speaks and writes English phenominally well, for it not being her Mother Tongue!
Europeans are so cosmopolitan, I have to tell you.

I just saw AD for the second time, and I STILL cannot find my Emile in the home videos Montage. :(

Anyone have any clue as to where he might be, please?

I think IllinoisGuy1 should go to see the Flick in a theatre ... I really do!
NOTHING like going to see something all blown up in 35mm ...

TheCentralScrutinizer · 21 Jan 07 :: 07:16

Abbie, I write deliciously smutty Joan Of Arcadia fan fiction with TeeJay and she stayed at my house for a couple of weeks last year. She is an amazing person. She speaks and writes damn near perfect English. I'd just about go so far as to call her brilliant. I don't think there's anything she couldn't learn if she put her mind to it.

Welcome. You just consider this a refuge, OK? Someplace to go and talk about the movie or Emile, or vent or anything you want. Whenever you feel like it. It's cool.

Hey, maybe we'll both get lucky and Emile and Chris will join The Nick Cassavetes Players the way Shawn Hatosy and some of the others have. Maybe Emile will pick up a part in either God Is A Bullet or Going After Cacciato. I ordered Cacciato from Amazon.com after reading the first few pages online. I sure hope Chris does get a part. And I hope to read the book on the way down to Orlando next weekend so I can talk to him about it.

BTW, I still can't find Chris in the AD opening sequence either. Do you not trust Matt when he says Emile is the baby?

Deb

London · 21 Jan 07 :: 10:02

Steph8705 wrote:

Woo hoo, first post here on the Chris Marquette board! I feel free already...hahaha.
I don't even know where to begin on spoiling this movie, everything about it was amazing..
I know there was that thread over on IMDb already started about this, but I just can't keep from talking about it, the murder scene.
When Chris (Keith) walked up to Zack and hugged him while crying, that's when I pretty much lost it..after that it was the way Frankie was lying through his teeth to Zack that he wouldn't hurt him and everything would be ok..and worst of all, Zack trusted him..

Steph

I lost it at that part, too. I was like nooo, Wacky Zacky.

I was freaking out when Keith was like "Where's Frankie? I need a ride home." & Elvis drove him to that cliff. I thought he was going to kill Keith! I was like noooo.

domesticelefant · 21 Jan 07 :: 13:43

I know I am repeating myself but I just CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THIS MOVIE anymore!!!
This is why I hate living in Germany ...

TeeJay · 21 Jan 07 :: 18:21

Hey guys, just wanted to check in. I'm not gonna read what you posted in this thread and I'm not gonna come back here before I've seen the movie because I hate spoilers and try to avoid them at any cost. But I saw that Deb brought some of you over from the troll-spammed IMDb board, so I wanted to say hi. Glad to have you all here. Happy discussing, I hope the movie comes to Germany in March, then I'll be back.

-TeeJay

Steph8705 · 21 Jan 07 :: 21:26

Thanks for the warm welcome, TeeJay. I hope AD hits theaters soon for you, too, it was an amazing movie.

Oh and HEY EVERYONE! lol, from IMDb, I was getting so FED up at that site..ugh it was ridiculous. Glad we came to the conclusion to come here, this board is much better

I'll be lingering around for while, I'm tryna get that Emile video for you, Abbie! It's almost done...I hope it works

Steph

domesticelefant · 21 Jan 07 :: 21:43

I hope they're gonna show it undubbed here somewhere, I hate dubbed movies.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 21 Jan 07 :: 22:09

Thanks Illinois. I never expected the movie to kill at the B.O. either. The subject matter is difficult. It's rated R for very good reasons. And there are a lot of people who just won't see it because of their ridiculous hatred for a pop star. But rest assured it will do great in the foreign markets and will become a classic on DVD. Speaking from 14 years of experience in the video industry, it's the kind of movie that stores will not be able to keep on the shelves on the weekend.

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 21 Jan 07 :: 22:33

OK, so it has pretty much made back it's production cost. That's great. Breaking even before the ancillaries is by no means a flop! Cool. :-)

Not only are some people waiting for DVD, a lot of our posters on IMDb and two out of three of us here are in another country and will have to wait. It'll be very interesting to see what the final tally is when all the markets are exhausted.

But then again, it was never really about how much money it makes for me. It was always about whether or not it's a good film. And it is. It's brilliant and difficult and powerful and maddening and in the end, very satisfying.

I'm proud of everyone involved.

Deb

Kait308 · 21 Jan 07 :: 22:49

And it's made back what it cost in the first 2 weeks.. Which is amazing.. I'm so happy for Nick and everyone who spent so much time making this movie..

And I'm SUPER stoked for the DVD.. It'll probably come out around my birthday, and I've already told everyone i know that they can get it for me lol

TheCentralScrutinizer · 21 Jan 07 :: 23:30

I think the DVD might come out before then, actually. I wonder if Nick has any idea about that yet. I'm prepared to wait as long as it takes, provided we get a tremendous extras package.

Deb

Kait308 · 21 Jan 07 :: 23:57

Ugh I can't wait to see the extras on this film.. They're gonna be amazing

TheCentralScrutinizer · 22 Jan 07 :: 01:38

Yeah, I'm bummed about missing Roeper & Whoever too. Glad he liked it. Welcome, kittoosh! If we can get everybody over here things will pick up. I'm sure they're all going to get sick of the flooding eventually.

Deb

Kait308 · 22 Jan 07 :: 02:11

I sure am.. Especially the loser DEMANDING to know why I'm so sure that Susan is actually Susan.. Annoying the crap out of me

Steph8705 · 23 Jan 07 :: 01:23

Wow...it FIGURES! I had Ebert & Roeper on last night but changed the channel..they must've shown AD near the end cause I shut it so quickly, I should've kept in on! Ahh! lol, oh well, the only opinion to me that matters is my own and I LOVED IT!

Anyway as far as the box office goes, could be better, but then again it could be worse, IMO I think it's doing pretty good, and yeah another thing that had an impact was the 'limited' theaters, if it had been in more, this movie would've probably been atleast #2 under Stomp the Yard, but regardless, it's doin great and I'm proud!

Now I'm even more anxious for the DVD..can't WAIT. So excited for the deleted scenes haha, oh and that Documentary Nick mentioned, that sounds pretty cool, too.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 24 Jan 07 :: 05:49

Thanks for the heads-up about the eBay auction, Illinois! We won the bracelet! I've emailed the seller to ask if they can ship it overnight so I can get it in time for the FX Show. It'd be cool to get Chris to sign it.

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 24 Jan 07 :: 05:52

And here's our prize...

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 24 Jan 07 :: 06:13

Premiere Props has stuff they haven't put on eBay, including some Justin stuff. One outfit is $1,999.00!

Here's on of Chris's costumes that I really like:

http://www.premiereprops.com/product_in … ts_id/2342

Oddly, it includes the macrame toque. He never wore it with these clothes in the movie.

Deb

domesticelefant · 24 Jan 07 :: 11:21

I just realized, they're selling the macrame toque twice.

Badfish2 · 25 Jan 07 :: 16:45

Hey all! Deb, again, thanks for inviting me here. illinoisguy1, why can't you see it in the theater? If it's annoying people that bother you, what about seeing it during the day? I can't imagine knowing that you can see it and not and having to wait for the DVD, that'd drive me crazy.

And hello Steph, fellow Rhode Islander!

This movie was just amazing, I mean besides being so true to the real story, the acting, the cinematography, the music. It was just great. I knew the true story going into the movie, the friend I dragged along with me didn't and his exact words were "When they were about to kill Zach I swear I had an anxiety attack and wanted to throw up, this movie totally sucked me in" which is pretty accurate to how I was feeling as well. Days later we're still talking about what an amazing movie it is.

Believe it or not I hadn't realized that Chris Marquette was in AD and was pleasently surprised when I saw him, it took a little bit to stop seeing him as Mike Brander from Just Friends (I've seen it like 300 times). Also,- last thing of my rambling first post, I promise- can we just talk about how hot Chris looked at the LA Premiere??? Daaaamn.

Chris Marquette Message Board

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SPOILERS!!! DISCUSS ALPHA DOG HERE!

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