The Peril of Adam Rove

taylor_27 · 06 Aug 09 :: 18:59

So I finally finished up till Spring Cleaning and I saw the notorious Trial & Error... however I do believe it was in some way foreshadowed, just not to the extent of what actually went down.

This is my take/theory on him... I believe it started back during Independence Day... he was pushing and pressuring her... and saying we've been going out forever and this is the next step...(WHAT!) and when she said no he pouted like a little baby... that is not the Adam I know, love, and trust.

In Shadows & Light he lied to her and turned down the offer to spend time with her... he had officially changed.

In Secret Service he met Bonnie(Alexis did great..IMO) they bonded over their artistic abilities and one thing lead to another and in Trial & Error they did the deed, but more than once!!!

My thinking was that he made one mistake and it was just a lapse of judement, but it was a continous thing... I was shocked to learn that they had been hooking up a couple of times... I kinda felt for Bonnie, she was just lonely and longed for someone to be with and to understand her... I think she thought he would break up with Joan and be with her, so she's not completely at fault, as much as Adam is.

What made me even more livid was that he couldn't man up and tell her... Joan found out through the mock trial and I was impressed with how she handled it in the court room, but afterwards after she found out the extent of the damage that he caused I was hoping she would slap him or push him or something!

In Spring Cleaning he was hurt, I understand that,. but he was rude and pouting and not handling it well at all... if he wanted to ever be close with her again he should have been nice and given her space.... instead he was bitter and cold.

What they shared and had was undeniable love for each other, sure they had some bumps along the way but only one thing could end what they had and Adam did that. Since Joan is a forgiving person and selfless I think she will forgive him and they will be friends, but I'm not sure if they would get back together... trust is something that takes a long time to build up and one minimal thing can just destroy all of that...

SO in conlusion of my rant I think Chris did a magnificent job even though he was totally disgusted with what they did to Adam, the writers really butchered his character. I still love Adam Rove, but only prior to Indep. Day, after that I fell out of love with him, just as Joan did.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 06 Aug 09 :: 20:27

I don't think Joan fell out of love with him at all. She was just devastated. She really wanted them to be each other's firsts and he threw that out the window. Yes, it would take several forevers to forgive him, but a love like that just doesn't die.

Also, even though they were having problems, I don't think it was foreshadowed, or inevitable. Remember, you have the benefit of having already known what was going to happen, so things that none of us picked up on the first time around might've been red flags to you.

I also don't think Adam liked Bonnie, even a little bit. He was just mad at Joan and here was this trampy girl throwing herself at him. Like Helen said, "He's a 17-year-old boy, he can't help the wiring." I also believe they only hooked up twice, and the first time was just a her giving him a BJ, which awakened something in him that he couldn't stop. So then they got together and went all the way. Immediately after, he felt like complete shit and I believe he resolved right there, outside her apartment that it would never happen again.

By the end of the season, Adam and Joan are already heading back into the friend zone. I have always thought that in S3, part of Joan's battle with Ryan Hunter would've been for Adam's soul. Ryan seemed hellbent on corrupting Adam and Joan would've done anything in her power to protect him from that evil. Whether they would've gotten back together is anybody's guess. Heck, I wonder if they ever would've let Joan lose her virginity even if the show had lasted into the college years!

Editsound · 07 Aug 09 :: 00:01

even though I hated the last few episodes I still have some thoughts. I don't think Ryan cared about Adam, I think he wanted Joan and he saw her weak point as being Adam, so he was going to use him to try to get Joan.

I think if there had been more seasons, then Joan and Adam would hve got back together (because it is TV and that is they way they do things.) But I don't think it would have been real. Trial and Error was the begining of JOA becoming just another TV show. Adam cheated because writers and executives thought he should for ratings, not because his character would have. JOA was unique because they built real characters and had them behave according to their natures. That is rare on TV. I have often wished there were more episodes of JOA, but I have also wondered if I would still love the show if there had been. They were starting to do damage to the show, and I am suspicious they might have destroyed it to save it.

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:06

I don't think the cheating thing was ever inevitable (or even within the bounds of possibility, if they'd been true to the character), but at some point I think the break-up was inevitable. I remember really not liking him very much in "Shadows and Light" when he was talking to Helen about how complicated things were between he & Joan, but that he really needed Helen in his life. Something like that. It seemed to me like he'd already decided to break up with her and was trying to line up her mother as an ally, sort of. Of course when he did what he did, that was out the window. But it wasn't his finest hour.:fedup: Wasn't his worst either, though.

taylor_27 · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:09

Ok so what was your reaction to Adam after Indep. Day? I had never seen that side to him, demanding, crude, impatient... roaring and ready to go.

Also, what a/b him lying to her about Rhode island and wanting to be by himself?

I think he liked Bonnie, they had art in common, if anything they would have been friends, like Iris.

O ok I didn't know that about Ryan and yea I believe Joan would sacrifice her own life to save Adam.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:11

Yeah, Rick, I share your same fears about what it would've become. And when I say Ryan and Joan would've battled for Adam's soul I didn't mean to suggest that Ryan cared about him. I meant that he had already gotten in with Adam so he would've used him against Joan any way he could. And Joan would've fought like hell to keep Adam from being destroyed by Ryan. Because while she may have ended their romance, she would always love him. He was a connection that she was never going to be able to easily sever, just like God said. God used her so many times to save Adam or just help him, he was obviously very important. I suspect they would've spent S3 apart and having these big issues because of Ryan. But in S4, they might've found their way back to each other. The fact that we'll never know is what drives so many of us to fan fiction.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:17

I must be the only person in the world who loves Shadows & Light and still sees sweet, loving Adam in it. The scene in the hallway when he shoves his own feelings aside (again), telling Joan they don't matter so the he can comfort her? That's my boy. Anybody ever stop to think how much of his own emotions he squashes to deal with the wild emotions of his very demanding girlfriend? And I also don't see his conversation with Helen as him trying to get her on his side if he breaks up with Joan. I saw that as him being terrified that he was going to lose her because of his horndog behavior.

As to the horndog behavior, that is simply a TERRIBLY written scene with an incredible load of cliches, absolutely no imagination, and a total lack of understanding of these characters. They were both so unbelievably stupid in that scene, I just can't even take it seriously. Some of us have wanted to rewrite it for years!

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:20

I agree with you that Alexis Dziena did a great job with the role. She did the best she could with what she had. But I don't think the Bonnie character was well developed at all. It just wasn't on the page, it seemed to me. He didn't seem like he liked her at all. When he tried to avoid touching her after they'd just had sex? That was horrible! And again, so unlike how the Adam viewers knew would behave.

You're right, they did have things in common. It seems kind of like they were gonna do more with that storyline and ran out of time. Because it seemed like, as far as Adam was concerned, Bonnie could've just been a hole in the ground. Sorry to be so crude. Why make that character an artist unless they were gonna possibly have a real relationship?

And yeah, he wasn't behaving well in "Independence Day", but I can put a lot of that down to disappointment. I agree with Rick about T&E being like other teen shows. A desperate move on someone's part, whether to line up younger viewers or please the network brass I don't know. But it's a sad, and I didn't like it. Still don't.

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:21

Oh yeah, he was wonderful in that scene in the hallway when he comforts Joan. But I didn't like part of that stuff with Helen. Which is weird, because I LOVED that relationship!

Editsound · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:29

As to Adam in Independence Day and Shadows and light, I didn't like the way he was in Independence day (again felt like writers not character) but it wasn't too far off and it could fall within the 17 year old wiring thing so for me it was still okay. And as too the lying and wanting to be alone, that could have been completely okay. It depended on what he wanted to be alone about. If he had been examining his feelings about Joan, and realized how important she was to him, and thereby grew closer, we would all be talking about what a great thing that was. But what it turned out to be is what is wrong.

I think they were still within the character (if barely) until trial and error.

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:34

Yeah, and they just dropped that. About the lying and wanting a night to himself. That bugged!

Editsound · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:37

Carol, your post made me think of something. Since the cheating has always felt like something the show was forced to do. Maybe the writers made Bonnie an artist, and gave them somethings in common so that it wouldn't appear like Adam was just using her like a hole in the ground. Maybe they were trying to save some dignity for Adam.

Didn't work, but maybe that's what they were doing.

Last edited by Editsound (07 Aug 09 :: 01:39)

TheCentralScrutinizer · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:43

I also think they were still in character until T&E, which to me came out of NOWHERE.

I actually love Independence Day except for the dialog in the camper scene. I love the idea of the episode, I love the idea of that scene because it's something they would really be dealing with at that stage in their relationship. What I don't buy is the cliches that came out of Adam's mouth and the incredible naivete Joan demonstrated in not ever imagining for one minute that sleeping with her boyfriend would be anything but completely innocent. What would make her think she could get horizontal with him and make out and he wouldn't get worked up? No 17-year-old girl is that stupid. I always said that they wrote him like any horndog character in any bad teen movie, and they wrote her like she didn't think Adam even had a penis.

It was just pathetic writing in that one scene. If they'd actually tried to write them in character, it could've been very interesting I think. It could still be Adam trying to make something happen and Joan trying to keep it from happening, just with dialog that didn't sound like it was lifted from the Chuck & Julie run away from home ep of One Day At A Time, circa 1976.

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:44

Yeah, maybe if they'd had another episode they could've done it better. Or (preferably) not done it at all. But Bonnie seemed like someone who needed a friend. And Adam (pre T&E) would've filled the bill nicely. Then if he'd found he had feelings for her, and there was a bit of a romantic triangle, that would've been much more interesting than what they did. To me anyway.

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:46

Deb, I love how you compared that scene to the Julie & Chuck stuff. I remember you found a clip on YouTube that was almost identical. It's sad that this show, with all it's great writing and writers, were reduced to doing it 1975 style so near the end. Like you said, they handled the subject of teens and sex so sensitively and beautifully in "The Gift" and then so ham-handedly in "Trial & Error".

Last edited by justme (07 Aug 09 :: 01:50)

TheCentralScrutinizer · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:48

Rick, I think it was much simpler than that. I think they only made Bonnie an artist as a way to force her into Adam's world and give him the opportunity to stray. If they had started that storyline earlier in the year and actually made Bonnie a real character that was real competition for Joan, then I would give them credit for thinking it through to that degree. Instead, that storyline always felt like an afterthought. Bonnie's art, in other words, was only a plot device. If they wanted to leave Adam some dignity, it would've made more sense to bring Iris back. She always cared more about him than he did about her and probably would've slept with him if he'd made a play for her. And he would NOT have treated her like a hole in the mattress because he respected her. I think that would've been a much more interesting, complex cheating scenario that might not have made fans' heads explode.

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 01:54

As it was it was just nauseating. When you knew it was him but you hadn't seen his face yet? Sickening!

justme · 07 Aug 09 :: 02:20

I remember Deborah at televisionwithoutpity.com said that what they refused to deal with is that the third party that came between Adam and Joan was God.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 07 Aug 09 :: 02:25

That's PERFECT! I agree that that assessment in a way. I really do wonder if they would've been scared to let Joan ever have sex since she was God's girl. Even if the show lasted till she was 25!

BiggestChrisMarquetteFan · 07 Aug 09 :: 20:56

The first time I saw T&E I cried. I still cry every time I watch it. I know a lot of guys do stuff like to their girlfriends but Adam Rove is different and would never ever do that.

taylor_27 · 08 Aug 09 :: 03:36

Ok so my question is when did they plan to have Adam cheat? Do they write out all of the epiosdes b4 they film season 2, if that is true then I believe they were foreshadowing and they planned all along to have Joan and Adam break up, I do think they made changes to Trial & Error right b4 the cast got their scripts and made him have sex with Bonnie a couple of times to just make it more tragic and shocking.

Yea I agree about the whole camper scene... just gross.
When Adam comforted Joan it was the real Adam.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 08 Aug 09 :: 04:02

I don't know for absolute certain, but from the way Chris talked about it, no one knew Adam was going to cheat until they got the script for T&E. And he and Amber immediately protested. With a lot of shows, the actors really don't know what's going to happen until they see the script. And from the poor writing, I would say they didn't decide to have Adam cheat until about halfway through S2. At least. But they didn't let on to the actors until it they had to.

justme · 08 Aug 09 :: 20:21

Yeah, I think it's really rare for shows to have scripts written well in advance. I think in a lot of cases they're desperately trying to have scripts slightly in advance of the shooting schedule. And I think that's probably especially true of a show like "Joan of Arcadia" where the show runner is also the head writer. So they're really short of time so that when they've made a bad call like this one they can't change their minds.

taylor_27 · 08 Aug 09 :: 22:45

Ohh ok so b/c of the repsonses to T&E did the writers regret it and apologize to the actors after they protested and were right?

justme · 08 Aug 09 :: 22:55

LOL! Not hardly. But they probably thought they'd have another season to do some damage control.

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