Potential & Kinetic: Friedman, Judith, and the Show

allatraka · 26 Feb 07 :: 19:07

Ok. The title of this topic basically says it all for me. So much potential, and then CBS cancels it, and it never gets to kinetic. So sad. But what I really wanted to talk about was the whole Freidman and Judith thing. He's usually so abrasive and mean (in a funny way) and all of a sudden Judith comes and he starts turning into this sweet guy who memorizes a play for her. And when she died he was so crushed. I kind of compare their relationship to Adam and Joan's relationship in the sesne that Joan kind of "saves" Adam and I feel like Judith would have really "saved" Freidman from being a prick a lot of the time. Does anybody else see that?

TheCentralScrutinizer · 27 Feb 07 :: 02:38

Yep, I'd say that was probably true to a degree. But then he was a jerk to Stevie --- something I NEVER understood. Like Luke said, Friedman would date mud. So what was his objection to Stevie? I hate to say it, but I think it was bad writing again. Like the writers couldn't figure out a real reason to keep them apart so they didn't bother to try.

I think Judith and Friedman might've been kind of fun together.

Deb

domesticelefant · 27 Feb 07 :: 10:43

Could be bad writing. They probably just needed a boyfriend for Stevie, so maybe they thought it could be Friedman because he wants a girlfriend so bad. Stupid if you ask me.

TeeJay · 27 Feb 07 :: 13:02

I think Stevie was written in as a ploy only to make Joan jealous. That's what it always felt to me. If they had any more plans for her, they could have easily built something between her and Friedman. Friedman and Stevie would have made a neat couple. It could have been a heck of a lot of fun. Do you remember Adam saying, "She has the Hello Kitty stuff"? Imagine Friedman finding out about that. And then teasing her with it. It could have been hilarious! But instead it was another missed chance. Too many of those in season two, weren't there?

But we were talking about Friedman and Judith initially, right? Yes, they could also have made a cute couple. It would have been even weirder than Stevie and Friedman, but it might have worked. Though I always kinda go the vibe that Judith wasn't into Friedman at all.

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 27 Feb 07 :: 15:02

Yeah, there are definitely too many missed chanced in season 2. I wonder if Barbara Hall is proud of what she did with Joan. I once liked her so much because she created two of my all time favorite shows, but after what they did with Joan at the end of season 2 I actually lost trust in her. I mean, she wrote six successful seasons of Judging Amy, why couldn't she do that with two seasons of Joan? Ah well, I guess it's not alone her fault. But it's still disappointing.

Susanna · 28 Feb 07 :: 04:30

Yeah, season three could've been absolutely awesome. But then again it could have slid further and further away from what it used to be, and morphed into some weird show, ruining characters and relationships in it's path.

People complain enough about some stuff in season 2, like this conversation about missed chances. Maybe, all in all it was best to end it before it really started to suck. I don't know, I think it would have rocked, but you never know.

I guess that's a kind of positive spin on the situation, in a bleak little way. But hey, that's me for ya.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 28 Feb 07 :: 05:10

Anybody ever notice how many shows are canceled after a 3rd season? Not many. Most shows that make it past the sophomore slump season blossom in their third season and then last for ages. I think JoA would've been one of those shows.

Just my personal opinion based on all I've read and heard and observed.

The only thing that would've sucked would've been a reduced role for Chris. If they were going to phase Adam out or if Chris had decided to move on, well, in that case, I wouldn't mind so much that it ended.

Deb

Susanna · 28 Feb 07 :: 09:57

Don't get me wrong. I wish so much that there was a third season, I miss Grace & Luke. Not to mention Adam. But there was aspects of the show I didn't like. It's one of my top five shows, but it's not my favourite, not by a long shot.

TeeJay · 28 Feb 07 :: 10:51

Deb, I think you're right about third seasons often blossoming. There are quite a few shows where I think the third season was one of the best. Off the top of my head, I can name X-Files (though they had other really good seasons), Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5, maybe also Third Watch.

It's not true for Roswell, however. That's one of the shows where things started to go wrong in season 2 and it never recovered from that. It was cancelled after season 3. Neither of us knows what season 3 of JoA would have been like, if it would have recuperated the show or if it would have made it slide further down the path to cancellation. There were quite a few missed chances in season 2, but overall I didn't like season 2 less than season 1.

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 28 Feb 07 :: 10:56

TeeJay wrote:

It's not true for Roswell, however. That's one of the shows where things started to go wrong in season 2 and it never recovered from that. It was cancelled after season 3. Neither of us knows what season 3 of JoA would have been like, if it would have recuperated the show or if it would have made it slide further down the path to cancellation. There were quite a few missed chances in season 2, but overall I didn't like season 2 less than season 1.

Agreed.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 28 Feb 07 :: 16:32

Call me crazy but I have a LOT more faith in veteran show-runner, Barbara Hall than I do in the guys who were running Roswell. Remember, they were fairly new at the show-running game when they started that series. Barbara probably would've taken the day-to-day show-running of JoA back from Jim Hayman since Judging Amy was closing shop. And that could only be a good thing. I think she would've steered it back in the right direction.

Deb

Susanna · 01 Mar 07 :: 04:45

Yeah, well I've never made it a secret that I don't like Barbara Hall, and I'd trust Jason Katims more than her anyday. With Roswell the networks were pushing it to be more action packed in season 2, and while I still love s2 & 3, not as much as I love s1.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 01 Mar 07 :: 06:43

Can't really argue with you there. We all have our perceptions.

Digi-Dragon · 21 Aug 07 :: 18:06

I think Judith wasn't really gaga over Friedman like he was over her, but she hadn't totally turned the possibility down. You could see a little something in her eyes when she talked to him in "Friday Night". Maybe it was just guilt for him memorizing the entire play, but I'm not sure.

On the quick subject of Friedman and Stevie, I really wish they could've entertained that a bit more. I mean, I REALLY wish they had, especially as to why he was so hesitant in going out with her. I don't want to put it up to bad writing right away, but more like things they forgot to put. I honestly think that Friedman was afraid of getting into a relationship with a girl who liked him, because Judith's death really hit him hard. He was afraid of losing another girl, and sadly that's what happened. At least that's what I got out of it. I wish Friedman could have more of a human face without us having to hypothesize.

TeeJay · 21 Aug 07 :: 18:13

To be quite honest, I could see Friedman with Stevie. Totally. Seeing Friedman with Judith... I have a bit of a hard time with that. It's not so much the Friedman-is-crazy-about-her thing, it's more that I can't really see Judith deciding that Friedman is the right guy for her. Does that make sense?

-TeeJay

Digi-Dragon · 21 Aug 07 :: 18:26

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. It's the same for me. Trying to picture Friedman with Judith was difficult, to say the least. Had Judith lived, they could've gone on to becoming really close friends rather than boyfriend and girlfriend.

Editsound · 21 Aug 07 :: 18:27

Interesting. I had always written off Freidman's response to Stevie as being a writer's device (or maybe he was being a smart snob). But that is an interesting idea, that he wasn't ready to risk his heart again. That is a real possibility, I'll have to keep that in mind when I see those episodes again.

My take on Judith's response to Freidman was that she didn't have a real interest in him until he memorized the play. I think she was responding to the dedication to her that he was showing. Kind of: If he will do this much for me, maybe I should take a more serious look at him.

Another side note on this subject, I loved the choice of Hamlet. Hamlet is in love with a doomed girl who ultimely dies in a accidental drowning/maybe suicide. Which is kind of like Judith's fate.

Digi-Dragon · 21 Aug 07 :: 18:34

Yeah- we never know what could've happened, so I guess we have to be content with 'what ifs' and such. If Friedman had gotten to read the play for Judith, maybe something would've sparked.

Heh, I never read Hamlet so the symbolism was lost on me until my brother explained it. I have a strong feeling I'm going to read it this year, though, so I guess I have a bit of a leg up on the subject. The doomed romance- why do we find it so intriguing?

domesticelefant · 21 Aug 07 :: 19:13

Can I just say that again: I loved Friedman in the "Vanity" episode. The make up class was hilarious! :rofl:

Chris Marquette Message Board

#1 26 Feb 07 :: 19:07

Potential & Kinetic: Friedman, Judith, and the Show

#2 27 Feb 07 :: 02:38

Re: Potential & Kinetic: Friedman, Judith, and the Show

#3 27 Feb 07 :: 10:43

Re: Potential & Kinetic: Friedman, Judith, and the Show

#4 27 Feb 07 :: 13:02

Re: Potential & Kinetic: Friedman, Judith, and the Show

#5 27 Feb 07 :: 15:02

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#6 28 Feb 07 :: 04:30

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#7 28 Feb 07 :: 05:10

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#8 28 Feb 07 :: 09:57

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#9 28 Feb 07 :: 10:51

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#10 28 Feb 07 :: 10:56

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#11 28 Feb 07 :: 16:32

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#12 01 Mar 07 :: 04:45

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#13 01 Mar 07 :: 06:43

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#14 21 Aug 07 :: 18:06

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#16 21 Aug 07 :: 18:26

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