SPOILERS!!! DISCUSS ALPHA DOG HERE!

TheCentralScrutinizer · 25 Jan 07 :: 18:43

Hey Badfish! Great to see ya! Yes, we absolutely can talk about how hot Chris looked at the premiere! Notice my avatar. Wow! I hate the buzzed hair, but damn he looka lika man, instead of a kid for once.

Can't wait to see him this weekend at the FX Show in Orlando. Have you seen our account of meeting him last October on the set of the aborted Revenge Of The Nerds remake? He was certainly beautiful and incredibly sweet that day. Gave a us a nice long interview for the site.

I know exactly what you mean about the climax of AD. It just gutted me. And I knew all about the case from follwing the movie for more than a year. Wasn't Anton just amazing?

Do you know that Chris and Anton worked together again a year after AD in a few eps of Anton's series, Huff? We have clips here on the site. Talk about Chris looking hot! Check this out:

And Illinois, I can understand why you don't like theatres. Nice to meet someone with patience too. That is not one of my best qualities. In fact, I think it's what I'm here for this time around, to learn patience. So far, it ain't happening. I just hope that your wait won't be too long.

Deb

domesticelefant · 25 Jan 07 :: 19:48

Sisterdebmac wrote:

I hate the buzzed hair, but damn he looka lika man, instead of a kid for once.

Very true. I agree.

And I also see the point in waiting for a movie to come out on DVD. I also don't like people who are making noise when they are at the theaters. I mean, I paid money for being able to see that movie, right? So I rather wait for the DVD. And since I hate watching dubbed movies, the DVD is better because I can watch the Original with subtitles or the dubbed version if I want to.

peek-a-boo · 26 Jan 07 :: 23:24

I wanna see this movies so bad but its Rated R and i'm 14 so me and my best friend are trying to talk her mom into bringing us because i would not watch this movie with my mom
CAN YOU SAY AKWARD:|

TheCentralScrutinizer · 29 Jan 07 :: 06:35

Nah, you definitely don't wanna see this one with anyone's mom!

Deb

domesticelefant · 29 Jan 07 :: 10:54

Not really.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 30 Jan 07 :: 08:33

Yes, I'm up too late again. Going to bed now. Just happened to remember that I wanted to say to the AD refugees that when I asked Chris what he was proud of among his recent films, he said Alpha Dog.

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 30 Jan 07 :: 18:54

Great review Illinois, despite the fact that you could barely tell what was going on. I think Zack didn't fight Frankie because he really didn't think Frankie would hurt him. His survival instinct obviously did not kick in. Damn shame that.

Yes, the mother was supposed to appear borderline crazy at that point in the movie because she was. She'd already tried to kill herself three times, she was drinking and taking pills, medicating with food. She was just a mess. I think that came off very well. The fat suit does look a little cheesy, but you probably couldn't tell because it was such a bad quality picture. I can understand why some people find it distracting. But I'm used to low budget and indie movies so it didn't bother me.

I would've liked to see them on trial too. But that would've been a very different movie. I think the original version of the film, before they reshot the ending had some trial stuff in it, didn't it? Or am I talking out of my ass hat?

Deb

Kait308 · 01 Feb 07 :: 03:24

Ya, Deb.. There was some trial stuff.. Remember Courtney Cox was originally in the movie before it was edited to what it is now.. She played a DA, so they had to cut that because of the whole legal issue.. She was the one speaking in that original uncut trailer.. The "these weren't bad kids.. they grew up together, played little league together" little voice over.. I'm not sure if that was an actual scene or just a a v/o, but it would be really cool to see all of that stuff in a director's cut on the DVD

and ya, Illinoisguy, Sharon's character Olivia was supposed to be crazy during that interview.. It's what really happened to Susan

And with that death scene.. Matt (the casting director) said that that scene was cut a bit.. After Elvis shot Zach, Frankie leaned over to vomit and saw his cellphone going off, it being Johnny calling off the "hit", but Matt said the point was already made and they felt that was overdoing it.. Even though I think that would have made that scene that much better and so much more emotional..

I have the same version on my computer, and I was disappointed at how dark it was.. But I had seen the movie 3 times already in the theater, so I pretty much knew the thing by heart lol.. You'll only have to wait a few more months to see it in all of it's glory though

TheCentralScrutinizer · 01 Feb 07 :: 04:46

Hi Kait, thanks for the clarification.

I haven't watched the original trailer in ages because I'm afraid it'll piss me off to see all that stuff that's gone. But Chris told me this past weekend that the scene on the hill between Keith and Elvis will be on the DVD. He said it was hard for him at first that it was cut, but Nick explained why it wasn't good for the movie and he understood.

Now, I've never heard Nick's reasoning, but I think it would ruin the tension in the scene where they're taking Zack out to the hill if we already saw how vicious and determined Elvis is because we've watched him force Keith at gunpoint to dig Zack's grave, telling him he can dig one for Zack --- or two, one for himself and one for Zack.

I wanna see that scene so bad! Man, I cannot wait for this DVD! I do hope the trial stuff makes it on there too.

Nick better make it great and Universal better make it quick!

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 01 Feb 07 :: 17:39

Yeah, April sounds about right. That will be a killer month for us if it happens. We already have The Education Of Charlie Banks debuting in competition at Tribeca (and Chris hopefully attending) and The Invisible hitting theatres. Here's hoping!

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 01 Feb 07 :: 19:19

Thanks, Illinois, we'll keep a look-out.

Deb

Kait308 · 02 Feb 07 :: 07:38

Oh Deb!! I've never heard about that scene between Chris and Shawn before!! Ugh, I hope the DVD is FILLED with extras.. If Smokin Aces is coming out in April, I would expect Alpha Dog to come out than too.. and that means only 2 more months!! I'm so stoked for this dvd

I was reading some older posts on the IMDB board, and someone who had seen the movie at Sundance commented on the opening montage and said that Courtney Cox's v/o was in it.. So hopefully that will be an extra on the dvd, since it was originally in the Sundance version of the film.. And as far as I can tell from Larry's responses, the scene where Frankie bends over to throw up and sees the cell phone going off was also in the Sundance version.. SOOO many choices for extras lol

Last edited by Kait308 (02 Feb 07 :: 07:39)

TheCentralScrutinizer · 02 Feb 07 :: 23:36

Hmmm, I wasn't aware that true crime films weren't a big box office draw. But then again, there aren't really a lot of true crime threatrical movies. Most of the time those stories end up as TV movies or mini-series. And they usually do quite well in the ratings.

I love stuff like that myself. Really looking forward to Zodiac. I read the book on which it's based many years ago.

Deb

TheCentralScrutinizer · 25 Feb 07 :: 22:44

ATTN: TEEJAY!!!

DO NOT READ THIS POST UNTIL YOU'VE SEEN THE INVISIBLE!!!

HUGE SPOILER AHEAD!!!

This isn't a spoilery AD something. This is a spoilery Chris something I realized a long time ago, but can't tell anybody here. So I figured I could post it safely in this thread (well, until TeeJay sees AD and thinks she can safely read this thread):

CHRIS ON SCREEN 2007:

He's involved in 2 murders - Alpha Dog & The Invisible
He's involved in 2 break-ins - Fanboys & Graduation
He dies twice - Fanboys & The Invisible

Coincidences? Hmmm...

Deb

domesticelefant · 25 Feb 07 :: 22:59

That is really kind of an interesting coincidence.

TeeJay · 23 Mar 07 :: 00:37

Day 0 after German Alpha Dog release date
=========================================
TeeJay's Apartment
Thursday, March 22, 2007
9:57 PM

Here's my story of how I went to see Alpha Dog for the first time. It all somehow started off on the wrong foot. I had been looking forward to this day for weeks, and when it was finally here and I left work to see the movie at the earliest possible time, I felt like laundered crap. (Anyone else hate hay fever?) That was the first thing that went wrong.

But still I went. Alone. To Cologne. Got lost on the way, of course. (Second thing that went wrong.) However, I wisely planned for that since I'd not been to that area of Cologne with the car before, and knew it was gonna be a complicated drive. So I still got to the theater in time and amazingly found a parking spot right away.

Third thing that went seriously wrong was that some teacher had decided it would be fun to drag their class to a movie in English. So I was surrounded by guys and girls that could have been right out of Alpha Dog, including the vulgar language and the disrespect. Hasn't anyone ever told these kids that it's not cool to play with your laser pointer on the screen or to take phone calls when you're watching a movie? Guess not. I was aggravated like hell. I was sure these guys would totally ruin the movie for me.

But once the movie got past the first five minutes (and after some lady just as annoyed told the kids to shut the hell up or else she'd have them removed), all of that was forgotten. Wait, there's a fourth thing that went wrong. The movie was subtitled in German (which they said it wouldn't be on the website). While that's not horrible, I always prefer movies without subtitles because you can't help but look at them and have to force yourself not to. But I learned how to ignore those eventually too.

That said, let's talk about the actual movie experience. Once the action started, I was completely drawn in. I was captivated from that point all through the movie right to the end. Never once did I think it was too lengthy or tiresome or just not entertaining. Never once was I annoyed at how the movie critics said it was too much like a documentary or that it was bothersome to follow the hand-held, unsteady camera style some scenes where shot in. Where? I didn't even notice that. Never once did I think the movie judged too little and was too neutral. I actually thought it was a very smart move not to judge too much. I can see how Nick Cassavetes wanted the movie goers leaving the theater, forming their own opinion.

I mean, if you have any sort of common sense and even a tiny grasp of morality, you walk out of this movie and you're shocked and disgusted. I felt sick to my stomach at the casualness Elvis and Johnny handled Zack's killing with. I was truly overwhelmed for a moment or two at how these events unfolded and finally climaxed.

But not only that. I can only shake my head at the lifestyle these guys are throwing around. Maybe I'm too much of the goody-two-shoes here, but I find it unbelievable that there's tons of kids out there who actually are like that. And I guess when you live in your comfy, healthy, sane little world like I do (well, the sane part is debatable), you tend to forget that there's people out there who treat life and their fellow living beings with so little respect. It's shocking, and not in a good way. Even more so the fact that it's often condoned by those who see that it's wrong but don't do anything about it. So, thank you, Nick, for showing us that and making us remember.

After a long loooooong time, this was one movie where I walked out of the theater and felt the need to talk about it with someone right there and then. Since I didn't have anyone with me, I grabbed the phone as soon as I came home and rang Deb in the US.

Now, let's talk about performances. Of course the fact that Chris Marquette was in this movie played a big role in me going to see it (on the day of release, no less), but I would have watched it without him too, I'm pretty sure of that. A lot of people said that Justin Timberlake showed real talent and did a great job. I would have to agree. Couldn't find anything about his performance that I didn't like. Emile Hirsch--just as great. Totally believable, especially the way he talked. Ben Foster was stunningly fierce. For a moment or two, I tried seeing the white-winged Angel he played in X-Men 3. I didn't succeed. Great job. Shawn Hatosy was so good. It was amazing to watch him change from sucking up wanna-be bad guy to ruthless killer. And I totally believed it. Anton Yelchin, what can I say? Loved him in Taken, Huff and Criminal Minds. Loved him in this as well. This was truly an inspired and very talented ensemble cast. They were all wonderful, across the board. A word to Mr. Barry: You did real good, Matt.

Oh, but don't worry, I will talk about Chris Marquette as well. What, did you think I'd forget? I was totally blown away. Chris, you've done it again. First you've got this goofball stoner kid who doesn't care for and about anything but weed and booze and sex with hot girls, and then he does a 180 at the end. Like other people have said before: I had tears in my eyes at exactly one point in the movie, and that was when Keith broke down and hugged Zack.

This was a completely different character than we've ever seen Chris do before, and he had no trouble at all pulling it off. Deb, you were right, the wig (as bad as it was) totally worked. Keith got quite a few laughs as well. I will stand by my statement that Chris is a chameleon on screen, and once again I feel vindicated for co-running a website about him.

I'm sure more thoughts about the movie will tumble out of my head over the next couple of days as I keep reflecting on it, but let this be my first, very spontaneous review. Before I go, I want to tell you that I pretty much knew what to expect from the movie even before I entered the theater, more so than with most movies I watch. And I walked out thinking: Wow! This movie exceeded my expectations by far. Great work, Nick and everyone. One of the few movies I would watch more than once in the theater. And if they show it without dubbing long enough around here, I will.

-TeeJay

PS: And, Deb? I recognized Alex Kingston right away, I think I would have, even if you hadn't told me about her being in the movie before.

TeeJay · 23 Mar 07 :: 00:41

GimmeKitty wrote:

Also, Tee-Jay speaks and writes English phenominally well, for it not being her Mother Tongue! Europeans are so cosmopolitan, I have to tell you.

Thank you, Abbie. I finally watched the movie today (as posted above), and I wasn't sure if maybe I'd have problems with all the language. I didn't, surprisingly enough. I think I understood 80 - 90%, and what I didn't understand wasn't all that important.

And let me tell you, I'm not your average European where the English language is concerned. I'm a total anglophile. Not all Europeans are like that. I dare say the majority doesn't speak English as well as I do (except for the British and Irish, I guess). So don't expect to come over here and have a deep conversation with everyone you meet. Except for some of the older generations, everyone has learned English in school at some point, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can describe you the way to the train station in perfect English.

-TeeJay

TeeJay · 23 Mar 07 :: 00:43

Sisterdebmac wrote:

Abbie, I write deliciously smutty Joan Of Arcadia fan fiction with TeeJay and she stayed at my house for a couple of weeks last year. She is an amazing person. She speaks and writes damn near perfect English. I'd just about go so far as to call her brilliant. I don't think there's anything she couldn't learn if she put her mind to it.

Geez, Deb, I'm blushing. Thanks. I think you're putting me on too much of a pedestal here, but I'll try to take the praise in stride. You wrote this before I started getting really annoying about some of the website stuff, didn't you?

-TeeJay

TheCentralScrutinizer · 23 Mar 07 :: 01:42

LOL, yes, I did write that before we had our little patch of difficulty, but I stand by it. You're something else, girl. Loved your review. Such a relief that I can talk to you about the movie now. Hope you heeded my warning and skipped the SPOILER post on this page of this thread.

You should post that review on IMDb. We can use some positivity over there!

Deb

TeeJay · 23 Mar 07 :: 09:31

Of course I skipped the spoiler. Thanks for marking that in bold, I had plenty of warning. I will post the review on IMDb, but I wanted to wait a day or two, see if I can add something more while I keep thinking about the movie. What also struck me this morning in the car is how Nick chose to portray the parents in the movie. All of them except the Mazurskys were just as bad as their kids. This kind of wasted lifestyle makes me wanna puke, to be honest. People like that shouldn't have the right to have children.

You guys have been talking about Sharon's fat suit. Let me tell you, it took me a few seconds to even realize that was Sharon Stone inside it. At first I was like: Wait a minute, why is this another person playing the mom? And it did bother me that it was badly done, especially around the nose area. On the big screen you could clearly see that her pudginess wasn't real. But I agree that it brought the point across very well that the death of her son had ruined this woman. How sad. Makes me think about what the real Susan Markowitz thought when she watched the movie, and especially that scene.

Oh, and since I don't really have anything planned for this weekend, I see me going back to the theater on Saturday or Sunday afternoon, this time hopefully without a hellishly annoying group of students surrounding me.

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 23 Mar 07 :: 09:57

TeeJay wrote:

At first I was like: Wait a minute, why is this another person playing the mom? And it did bother me that it was badly done, especially around the nose area.

Yeah, same here.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 23 Mar 07 :: 18:37

TeeJay, did you go read my review of the movie yet?

Deb

TeeJay · 23 Mar 07 :: 19:35

Of course I did. It was great, I loved it!

I added some stuff to mine before I posted it on IMDb. Here's the edited version:

Day 0 after German Alpha Dog release date
=========================================
TeeJay's Apartment
Thursday, March 22, 2007
9:57 PM

Here's my story of how I went to see Alpha Dog for the first time. It all somehow started off on the wrong foot. I had been looking forward to this day for weeks, and when it was finally here and I left work to see the movie at the earliest possible time, so many things went wrong. My hay fever was really bad, I had trouble finding the tiny theater in the middle of Cologne and then got stuck in traffic too. But somehow, miraculously, I still made it to theater in time.

It wasn't funny at all when I discovered that some teacher had decided it would be fun to drag their class to a movie in English--and apparently chose this one to do the trick. (This you should know: In Germany movies are usually dubbed into German and I made sure I watched an undubbed version.) So I was surrounded by guys and girls that could have been right out of Alpha Dog, including the vulgar language and the disrespect. Hasn't anyone ever told these kids that it's not cool to play with your laser pointer on the screen or to take phone calls when you're watching a movie? Guess not. I was aggravated like hell and sure these guys would totally ruin the movie for me.

But once the movie got past the first five minutes, all of that was forgotten. (It helped that some lady just as annoyed told the kids to shut the frig up or else she'd have them removed.) To add one last thing to my frustration, the movie was subtitled in German (which they said it wouldn't be on the theater's website). While that's not horrible, I always prefer movies without subtitles because you can't help but look at them and have to force yourself not to. But I learned how to ignore them eventually too.

That said, let's talk about the actual movie experience. Once the action started, I was completely drawn in. I was captivated from that point all through the movie right to the end--being taken on an excursion into a sick and twisted wasteland world that people like me rather shy away from. Never once did I think it was too lengthy or tiresome or just not entertaining. Never once was I annoyed at how the movie critics said it was too much like a documentary or that it was bothersome to follow the hand-held, unsteady camera style some scenes where shot in. Where? I didn't even notice that. Never once did I think the movie judged too little and was too neutral. I actually thought it was a very smart move not to judge too much. I can see how Nick Cassavetes wanted the movie goers leaving the theater, forming their own opinion.

I mean, if you have any sort of common sense and even a tiny grasp of morality, you walk out of this movie and you're shocked and disgusted. I felt sick to my stomach at the casualness Elvis and Johnny handled Zack's killing with. I was truly overwhelmed for a moment or two at how these events unfolded and finally climaxed.

But not only that. I can only shake my head at the lifestyle these guys are throwing around. Maybe I'm too much of the goody-two-shoes here, but I find it unbelievable that there's tons of kids out there who actually are like that. And I guess when you live in your comfy, healthy, sane little world like I do (well, the sane part is debatable), you tend to forget that there's people out there who treat life and their fellow living beings with so little respect. It's shocking, and not in a good way. Even more so the fact that it's often condoned by those who see that it's wrong but don't do anything about it. So, thank you, Nick, for showing us that and making us remember.

I shouldn't forget the parents. You know, some people should not be allowed to have kids, and we saw a good share of them in this movie. I mean, how were those kids supposed to learn about moral values if their parents couldn't care less about either--morality or their kids. How blessed am I that my parents are the antithesis to people like Jürgen Ballenbacher or Sonny Truelove. Thank you, Mom and Dad, for raising me a decent kid who has a pretty good idea what is right in the world and what is not.

I had a hard time watching Zack tumble into that world of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll (or in this case rather hip hop), thanks to the misguided adoration of his brother Jake. Sometimes parenting isn't everything, I guess. And that made it even more painful to hear Zack talk about what he was planning to do with his life, once he got back home--that he wanted to start over and learn new things. I had a knot in my stomach because everyone except Zack knew that he would never get to do any of those things. It was as heart-wrenching to watch as the meager attempts Frankie made to lure the oblivious Zack away from his bleak fate.

All in all, there were a lot of elements and images to this movie that got stuck in my mind and probably will stay there for quite a while. I would have had the opportunity to watch it on my TV at home before this day, but I chose to wait with the first viewing until I could see it on the big screen in Dolby Surround. A wise choice, because I'm sure it wouldn't have made the impact that it did. After a very long time, this was a movie where I walked out of the theater and felt the need to talk about it with someone right there and then. Since I didn't have anyone with me, I grabbed the phone as soon as I came home and rang Deb in the US.

Now, let's talk about performances. Of course the fact that Chris Marquette was in this movie played a big role in me going to see it (on the day of release, no less), but I would have watched it without him too, I'm pretty sure of that. A lot of people said that Justin Timberlake showed real talent and did a great job. I would have to agree. Couldn't find anything about his performance that I didn't like. Emile Hirsch--just as great. Totally believable, especially the way he talked. So laid back, so casual. Ben Foster was stunningly fierce. For a moment or two, I tried seeing the white-winged Angel he played in X-Men 3 while I was staring at a stark raving mad Jake Mazursky. I didn't succeed. Great job. Shawn Hatosy was so good. It was amazing to watch him change from sucking up wanna-be bad guy to ruthless killer. And I totally believed it. Anton Yelchin, what can I say? Loved him in Taken, Huff and Criminal Minds. Loved him in this as well, especially with the range he showed--from careful innocence to the initially hesitant confidence that then kept growing.

Those are just the main guys, and I would like to add that I was impressed with everyone. To mention a few names off the top of my head: Dominique Swain, Heather Wahlquist, Lukas Haas, Amanda Seyfried, they were all great. Bruce Willis and Sharon Stone too. Everyone was believable and brought their characters to life. This was truly an inspired and very talented ensemble cast; they were all wonderful, across the board. A word to Mr. Barry: You did real good, Matt.

Oh, but don't worry, I will talk about Chris Marquette as well. What, did you think I'd forget? I was totally blown away. Chris, you've done it again. First you've got this goofball stoner kid who doesn't care for and about anything but weed and booze and sex with hot girls, and then he does a 180 at the end. Like other people have said before: I had tears in my eyes at exactly one point in the movie, and that was when Keith broke down and hugged Zack.

This was a completely different character than we've ever seen Chris do before, and he had no trouble at all pulling it off. Deb, you were right, the wig (as bad as it was) totally worked. Keith got quite a few laughs as well. I will stand by my statement that Chris is a chameleon on screen, and once again I feel vindicated for co-running a website about him.

Last but not least, the choice of music for this movie was inspired. It was one of the few times where I had actually listened to the soundtrack before I watched the movie, knowing and liking a few songs very well already. In my mind I hummed along to Eminem's Goodbye Hollywood and silently recited the lyrics of Tech N9ne's Night & Day as the credits rolled. I would have to agree with Deb on this one: Very gutsy choice to go with this as the song to play alongside the credits.

Before I go, I want to tell you that I pretty much knew what to expect from the movie even before I entered the theater, more so than with most movies I watch. And I walked out thinking: Wow! This movie exceeded my expectations by far. Great work, Nick and everyone. One of the few movies I would watch more than once in the theater. And if they show it without dubbing long enough around here, I will.

-TeeJay

TeeJay · 23 Mar 07 :: 20:55

NC-17 alert!

Anyone who's not over 18, please don't click the link. Everyone who's entitled to see this, it'll give you a good laugh, I hope. It's an animated GIF, so if it doesn't move, your browser probably doesn't support it.

Keith is so naughty!

-TeeJay

domesticelefant · 23 Mar 07 :: 20:58

Whahaha, friggin hilarious!!! :lol::lol:

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