Adam, Joan, and the Sex Question

coronetblue · 23 Mar 11 :: 02:56

What do you feel was going on with the series that Adam and Joan couldn't go to bed at some point? Teen sex has been handled respectfully and skillfully in other series. One example is Friday Night Lights, with the characters of Matt and Amy. What made it a no-no in Joan of Arcadia?

Was it the writers or producers being afraid of backlash by viewers? Series creator Barabara Hall didn't seem to be afraid to take heat from viewers, she talks about getting hate mail for having God appear as a gay guy. Were they afraid that after going to bed, they would never be able to break up Adam and Joan? Was it a moral, Catholic issue? If that's the case, how come it didn't also apply to Adam in Trial and Error? Why was it ok to depict Adam's character as someone who just used Bonnie for sex, when everything else we've been shown about Adam said just the opposite? What happened to what we saw between Adam and Joan in The Gift? Did God not want Joan and Adam to have sex because Joan needed to be a virgin, more like Saint Joan, for her upcoming battle with Ryan Hunter? Did the writers or producers feel it was ok to have God appear in the series, but not teen sex?

TheCentralScrutinizer · 23 Mar 11 :: 03:08

Personally, I just always felt that they didn't want Joan to lose her virginity. While they tried so hard to NOT be a "religious" show, they also couldn't figure out how to deflower "God's girl". I like the parallel you drew with Friday Night Lights. Matt and Julie (not Amy) are very much like Adam and Joan in a way. "I Think We Should Have Sex" is kind of like "The Gift" in that Joan/Julie essentially offers herself up, but then Adam/Matt puts the brakes on, reluctantly. And if you recall, Matt and Julie broke up in Season Two, but it was because she cheated. They didn't actually finally have sex until Season Three, and by then, he'd already lost his virginity to someone else. Which might be what would've happened in JoA S3. Think about what I said in your other thread. How would Joan try to draw Adam back to her if Ryan further corrupted him? Would it eventually come down to them falling back into each other's arms? Would either of them be able to put on the brakes? Would they want to? Matt and Julie, when they finally got physical, it was joyous. And right. And they ended up together after five years of ups and downs and a whole lot of crap. And that is exactly what I envisioned for Adam and Joan as well.

coronetblue · 23 Mar 11 :: 03:56

Oops, your right. I called Julie on Friday Night Lights "Amy" cause she's played by Aimee Teegarden. And Julie and Matt do remind me of Joan and Adam. I like your vision of Joan and Adam in season three -- definitely a season I would want to watch. I realized a few minutes after I posted this topic that teen sex did appear in the series -- particularly in Trial and Error, but in the worst possible light (or did I mean to say dark?).

TheCentralScrutinizer · 23 Mar 11 :: 04:00

Dark, definitely. Part of me still can't accept it. But I had to "technically" do it so I could write fic. Many people exhausted many words trying to deal with it. I chose to skip ahead and ignore it for a while. It kept me sane when I needed sanity. This show came along right after my mom died. I was in a dark place for a long time. It was like a salve. It just got really deep under my skin. Luckily, I found friends who were similarly affected. And here we still are. That's some powerful storytelling, despite the flaws.

mshaffer · 27 Mar 11 :: 13:58

Nobody knows what Barbara Hall ultimately had in mind in regard to this question. I have long wondered why Barbara decided that Adam should have sex with Bonnie. It was so out of character for Adam to have done this. Not the having sex part, but the betrayal of having sex with Bonnie while already in a relationship with Joan. It may have been done purposely to through the answer to the sex question down the road. No boyfriend, no opportunity for sex.

Joan of Arc remained a virgin until she was raped while in prison during her trial. If Barbara continued the parallel between the two Joan's, then our Joan would choose chastity. It is not commonly practiced in today's culture, but someone should not be berated for having made that choice.

coronetblue · 27 Mar 11 :: 15:04

I don't feel anyone who has spoken here is berating Joan for not having sex. I can't say we were certain her character was consciously choosing chastity. Like most of us at that age, there is confusion about what to do and when.

There were multiple betrayals that were out of character, all of which ultimately originate with the writers/producers. Neither of the two writers had ever written for this (or any other) series before -- a strange choice for such a pivotal episode. There is an echo in the character of Adam (in Trial and Error) and Kevin (in Double Dutch). They both sleep with someone, which then ends a relationship, and both justify it by saying "It didn't mean anything".

Adam betrayed his own self, his own true nature -- to use an expression frequently heard in the show. In betraying himself, he betrayed Joan and he betrayed Bonnie, whom first he befriended, helped get into Helen's art class and then treated like an object. In the story they chalked it up to hormones, which we've all experienced, but this was more like demonic possession. And by the next episode he was already kind of exorcised, except for his choice of new friends...

No, we can't know what Barabara Hall had in mind. But if I have to choose someplace the series would have headed, I would further Deb's vision. That Adam would come into the gravitational pull of Ryan Hunter, which we already see happening by the end of Season Two. While Will's battle against Ryan involves Arcadia's houses of worship going to hell, Joan's battle against Ryan, at its core, is for Adam's true nature. She is fighting for his heart.

mshaffer · 27 Mar 11 :: 18:08

I did not mean to imply that anyone here was berating Joan. I agree that no one has.

The relationship between Kevin and Rebecca may have turned out differently had Sydney Tamiia Poitier not decided to leave the show.

The father-daughter connection between Joan and Will as metaphysical and physical warriors would likely have continued in season 3. Which one would have ultimately been responsible for bringing Ryan down, and saving Adam in the process would have been fun to watch. I suspect it would have been a combination of both.

TheCentralScrutinizer · 27 Mar 11 :: 18:52

I think the reason Adam's betrayal still sticks in our collective craw is because it was completely inorganic. And anyone who knows me knows that that kind of stuff drives me batty in any kind of storytelling. You can't take a character who probably doesn't even know what a "hook-up" is and have him use a girl like an old shoe and then say "it was just a hook-up". I remain convinced that not only were such actions not in his heart, those words were not even in his vocabulary. Cheating with Bonnie was not something Adam did, it was something the writers arbitrarily did to him. Even after 6 years it still feels false. I think it always will. One might even consider it be be one of those "jump the shark" moments.

Nice to see you over here finally, mshaffer. Hope you're doing well these days.

Chris Marquette Message Board

#1 23 Mar 11 :: 02:56

Adam, Joan, and the Sex Question

#2 23 Mar 11 :: 03:08

Re: Adam, Joan, and the Sex Question

#3 23 Mar 11 :: 03:56

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#4 23 Mar 11 :: 04:00

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#5 27 Mar 11 :: 13:58

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#6 27 Mar 11 :: 15:04

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#7 27 Mar 11 :: 18:08

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#8 27 Mar 11 :: 18:52

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